#220 – Daredevil Born Again (S2, Eps 2 & 3) — That Ending Changed Everything

Welcome back to Marvel Maniac and MCU After Show. This is your host, Eric Cicada, aka Mr. Honest, back with you for a double feature discussion of Daredevil born again. Episodes 2 and 3. Shoot the Moon and the scales and the sword. I will say these two episodes were most likely released together because there's a lot of build up to the second one in the first episode. There's some good stuff in there, but. But we are all ultimately leading to that epic ending that we're going to talk about. But we got to go through everything that happened first. I mean, not everything. We're not a recap show. We're a reaction show. And all I could say is right now, oh, my goodness, this was some genuinely awesome Daredevil action. And I can't wait to talk a little bit more about that. And we sit and watch these two episodes, and what's going to stick with us the most? You tell me. It's that ending. For me, it was all worth it. You know, a lot of politics. And I was going to come in, maybe criticize the idea of politics, but that's what these episodes of Daredevil. That's what this era of Daredevil Born Again is a little bit more about. It's political. It's Fisk gaming the system at every angle he can, pushing it against his enemies. And he's like a boxer now in this one, I don't know what his angle is about doing this boxing match. We haven't heard much about it, but we see a lot about it. We see him actually training for it with his instructor, who he's beating down pretty good. And he gets distracted. He's talking to an employee. But all I can remember is the boxer was like, hey, that's. You're not giving me your. Give me your all. That's. It's honestly not like you and Fish just like beats the boxer up into the mirror, shatters the glass. The guy is bleeding. Fisk has power. Now. Before we get into the meaty nitty gritties, I'm gonna be honest, we're gonna be flying the outskirts on this one a little bit. I want to talk about just what I'm thinking this moment and what I'm thinking about right now. I'm going to be honest with you, is Spider man brand new day. And I'm not going to fall too far off trail here because this has to do with Daredevil and Fisk. There's a lot of rumors going around about what's going to happen in Brand New day. Who's the main villain? We see a lot of clues in the trailer episode trailer discussion. Is honestly possible we could do that. But at the same time, I think the story is also leading a bit into that movie. I mean, that's what they said a while back, but they haven't been saying much about it now because they don't want to spoil things for us. But this is what we do. We specul. We've been without new material and new mainline MCU stuff for a good couple months now. So all I could say is, is Spider man powerful enough to go one on one with Fisk? Is Fish strong enough to go one on one with Spider Man? Does Spider man need Daredevil? Does Spider man need Punisher? Do all three of them need to have a scene where Fisk just took a super soldier serum just to fight the web head and more of his enemies hands on? Oh, my gosh. How devastating would that be? I don't know if he would. I don't know if we've seen his full power even yet. We know he's got some sort of, like, minor super strength. At the very least, crushing commissioner, skulls open and stuff like that. And I'm interested. I think next week's probably going to be the episode where Fisk goes sparring in the ring in front of a crowd. And we'll probably learn a lot more about that. So Fisk does something really smart this episode. He doesn't out Matt Murdock as Daredevil. Something I always wonder, like, when is he going to pull that card? Is he gonna pull that card? No, he is smarter than that. He not your mustache twirling villain. I like. I'm thinking of the Swordsman. Tony Dalton, the actor who plays the swordsman in Better Call Saul and his mustache when he's playing Lalo Salamanca. He is a phenomenal actor. We know him from Hawkeye. We've gotten to see a little bit of him as a swordsman in the first season, but not a whole lot. We got to see him, you know, kind of like video clip wise, taking some guys down. But that, as you know, changes this episode. I think it's smart for Fisk to put people looking for a savior in Matt Murdoch and hunting down Daredevil as a murderer. This puts pressure on both ends for Matt. This almost pushes him to stay in the suit. Although up until the end of the first episode, we didn't get to see a whole lot of action. But like I said, plenty of buildup to everything that happens at Red Hook. Bullseye is just playing his cards. We. We are very curious from the beginning of this episode why Bullseye's helping Matt. Well, they come up with. Karen and Matt come up with a pretty ideal lens as putting Matt and Fisk against each other technically, and pinning each thing on the other guy. It's kind of like killing in disguise is what he's doing. But he has a signature move, and it's very, well, pointy. He really knows how to implement objects inside of people's heads, which is a very cool technique, a very gory one at that. And I find it so curious and so awesome that one of the signature Daredevil villains of the comic books, from what I know, I haven't read many comic books. I'm looking at getting. Getting Marvel Unlimited. Is that good? Anyone? Give me a. Give me a reference number, and I'll get it. Marvel Unlimited with your reference number. I don't think there's reference number numbers, but I'm very interested in learning a little bit more about what happens in the comics with Bullseye, how often he returns. Because if you count the original Daredevil series, the third season is all about him as the villain. I mean, right in the middle of Fisk and Matt. And then we get a lot of him last season, and we get a lot of him this episode and season so far. So they're still building stuff up with him. We get to see him in his suit. He's definitely owning him, owning who he is as a vigilante. He's kind of like Punisher, but worse, because I don't think he, Like, I just don't think he makes. He's just kookier. I don't know. What do you think? I want you. I really do want your thoughts. Marvelmaniacpod Gmail.com. what's Bullseye's game? What's his game here? What's he gonna do at the end of this story? Where is the story leading him? Is he gonna side with Matt Murdock? Can Matt even let himself side with someone who, like, allowed and best friend Foggy? Is Foggy dead? Are we. Are we still hanging on to those theories that Foggy might just be undercover under, you know, underground? He wanted to fake his own death? I don't know. Personally. Personally, I think they add that in for that huge shock value and a huge loss to carry Matt through the whole season one. But I got to say, there was a moment where we get a smile off of Matt, and it was pretty fantastic. It was when he flashed a Light in those guys eyes and he smiles at them. That is some sinister Daredevil action, right? Because usually when we see him fighting in the show, he's fighting for someone or redeeming something and he's very serious. But I think he's gotten a little bit more light hearted somehow. Even though he's still doing the crazy amount of action and skills and breaking things down like Daredevil only can, like at the end of episode two or three, shall I say, the last one we watched together. I'm gonna be honest, these episodes blend together in my head really well. They played like a movie. I didn't come run to the mic and do episode, episode one. I'm just kind of laying down thoughts after the whole ordeal, right? Karen and Matt make me worry about a character death of Karen. Karen, although at the same time is starting to like, just majorly kick some ass. I mean, she's been training with Matt. She knows how to work, she knows her way around a gun, she knows how to do a lot of fighting. Is she gonna just don a mask and become her own hero? Is Karen Page a hero in the comic books, man, that's what's so great about Marvel. You never know when somebody's gonna pop up. You know, this is like a lady Thor type thing. And I don't want to hear any of the hate on Thor. Love and thunder. All right, it had a little bit of heart. All right, it had a little bit of heart. This, this show, this series, the season has a lot of heart. And they aren't pumping the brakes much. Like I said, I was getting a little scared there towards like the beginning of the first episode. You know, it's all political. I haven't seen Matt in his suit yet, but when he finally gets in it, it's honestly fantastic. White Tiger's family is going through it. The girl, his niece, I believe, accidentally gets her aunt, I think it is, arrested. I don't know who it was to her. I'm sorry. It doesn't matter really though. It. What matters is she is kind of picking up the mantle of the White Tiger, which is extremely dangerous, as we see in the last episode. She assists Karen by getting her some walkie talkies and finding some evidence of guns. She's doing what she thinks is possible to help. And honestly, getting her that walkie talkie was pretty key into locking in the operation at the end of our third episode. So there's this Fisk imposter thing happening. It started last week and it goes on through these few Episodes. And we. I mean, I wasn't sure if they'd reveal this at the end of the episode. Same thing with the prisoner situation. Like, there's things that I thought they would probably take a lot of time to reveal. Consider it's an eight episode run. And what is a really good sign to me is they're setting up pieces and knocking them down within episodes, not seasons. Yeah. Fisk has still got the overarch Red Hook story. That's pretty much, you know, the tale of the whole series so far, which kind of makes sense because it's just a really badass premise. Fisk has a freeport not ruled by New York City. A place where he could just do whatever he wants with people, take people prisoner, hold them inside ourselves. But I don't think the people know that. They're getting propaganda fed. And BB Yurik is totally playing the disguise card here. She's actually the guy in the video doing the fake Fisk with the mask. She's playing Daniel like a fiddle. Daniel, the young Fisk wannabe. I'm gonna call him. He is getting far too confident, but he's also stepping into that pure evil lane. He's starting to just love what Kingpin does, despite what he learns about him. I mean, he was not there for when the commissioners. Sorry for bringing this up so often, but when the commissioner's head gets smushed by fist hands, Daniel was not there for that. And I'm curious to. I'm just kind of curious. If Matt saw that level of. Not Matt. Daniel saw that level of evil and gory, just brutal. Brutal fist behavior, would that change his mind? Or would he even accelerate further into being, wanting to be like the next Kingpin protege? Because it seems like Wilson Fisk is Daniel's hero. And I like the character. I think he acts fantastic. He's James Gandolfini's son. I don't know the actor's name at the top of my head, but I think he is a complex and very layered character. And I. I'm truly excited to see where it goes with him. Personally, I think he's gonna mess up again. And I think Fisk is going to learn about it. I think Fisk might impulse kill this kid. I'm not. I'm not lying. I swear. Something bad's gonna happen to Daniel or he'll get himself into muddy waters because he gains too much confidence. He's so confident talking to BB Urich. She. He doesn't assume that she's the leak because she tells him so. And he does really actually question her a little bit. Are you leaking this stuff? Well, no, she's technically not lying. She's making the Fisk videos, which are funny, which I wonder if she's using a voice changer. And you got to put together all that really good editing. Kind of could give her away, considering she probably makes her own BB report, sends it into the news station. I don't know exactly how that works for her, but she hasn't been caught yet. And I'm. I'm definitely in fear of Fisk finding out that it is her that is doing that. Or Daniel holding his friend. Slash. I mean, would you call her a crush to Daniel? I don't know. Probably a little bit. The way he makes her dinner. And his loyalty to Fisk, Will he keep what he knows about BB under the table? Or will he go against his greatest ideal mentor, Wilson Fisk, and. And lie to him about her? Because he wants to know who it is and he wants it stopped. I don't know how much spread these videos have they. They get taken down not long after they're put up, but I think they're meant for the public. I just don't see any reaction to any of it. We only see the videos themselves in this two episode run. I think she did two or maybe three of these videos and she does a pretty good impression of Fisk. It's honestly pretty good satire even within the world of Marvel. No Spider man yet. I'm gonna keep bringing up Spider Man. I want to mention a Spider man because he's out there. He's webbing people up right now. So I need an explanation on why he's not a part of this, aside from money in the real world. I want to know a story in story reason. Where the living heck is Peter Parker and how is he not catching on to some of the things that are going on? Well, maybe that's how Jessica Jones will join the fray. She's still not here. Honestly starting to wish they didn't put it out there that she's going to be in the show. Because at this point I thought she was going to be here all season. It looked like a daredevil season full of Jessica Jones, when it now could be she enters the show and stays the whole way. Or an episode or two arc where we get her and then we don't see her again, which I would prefer the former against the latter. Karen and Matt are not safe in the first episode, mostly through the whole series so far, this season especially. But I'm saying this because they get attacked at Josie's and oh my goodness, are they sick of being attacked yet. I mean, they're getting snuck up on. They're playing dirty games to get to Matt. They know where he is sometimes. I guess they figured out he was at Josie's, they attack his place there. And what we do is we see Karen take action. She can fight and she took one of the cops hostage. They're hunting us, so maybe we should start hunting them. Was the last line of episode one, shoot to the Moon, really cool. Episode three again titled the Scales and the Sword. We get this kidnapped cop, we kind of open it up for where we left off in the recent episode, which I think was a good move for them to do a double episode. I don't know why they did did that. They want needed to keep it at seven weeks because of other releases or one reason or another. They gave us a double feature tonight and it's the only night to my knowledge, that they're going to be doing that for the show. I think they want to keep numbers up. I think they might have sensed that SE episode 2 of the season was maybe a slower buildup episode and three being the penultimate. Honestly, kind of part B of episode two, it's sometimes like on my Magic Muggle podcast, I'm thinking I'm going to combine these chapters and make an episode about this. Listen to Magic Muggle, a Harry Potter after show, if you're interested in any of the wizarding world stuff. I'm reading chapter by chapter and covering it on a podcast and I gotta say, it's one of the funnest things ever. If you're. If you're bored and you want to hear some Harry Potter after shows, read along or just listen. Magic Muggle, a Harry Potter after show wherever you listen to your podcast. Back to Daredevil. So Matt's ex girlfriend slash therapists slash psychologist. I'm not sure of all her titles. Heather has so much trauma from Muse and she also has trauma building every day. She works for Fisk and she's doing dirty deeds like filling out forms, making the swordsman look more guilty than he is that he's giving different answers than he is. And it's totally used against daredevil SL. Matt's partner in law, Kirsten McDuffie. I think the McDuffie is her last name. Kirsten plays a pretty big part in episode two and she kind of literally calls out Heather for what happened and Heather kind of gaslights her. She uses the Muse attack, which is absolutely true. She's funneling some of, like, real trauma into this, of what actually happened to her and using it back against Kirsten. And Kirsten has to go to court with next to no knowledge getting to interview the Swordsman, like one time. And he. She only has two hours. This whole case is built up against him. She had no time to prepare or do anything. And the judges are clearly corrupt. I mean, we get a good. Get a good bird's eye view of the judges just looking extremely corrupt. Jack, AKA the Swordsman, hands it, handles it like a literal champion. He knows that the odds are stacked against him. He knows that Fisk is playing the system. There's no way they're going to get him out of custody, especially with everything he knows about all the caged people. And we get to see behind that interrogation wall. Not interrogation, it seems like it could be an interrogation room, the room where they're doing the interviews with the Swordsman or, you know, that. Where Heather actually filled out that form and lied. I don't know if she carries resentment for that. She seems to me like a character who's going to turn on Fisk with all the information she has. Maybe she'll learn man's true identity and it all makes sense to her, like a Mary Jane and Spider man type type deal. But I wouldn't tear Karen and Mad a part of it meant anything at all. I mean, I'm worried for Karen's well being. I'm going to tell you this, she's the closest person to Matt right now. He wakes up with her, he does, he does missions with her. They are a team. They are basically their own two man team. And if something happens to Karen, it's going to ruin his life again, like it did with Foggy. And I just. Please marvel, don't. Don't do this to us. So we do get a. Like an image of Jack and all the prisoners trying to shout, just let us out. Let us out. And I'm thinking, man, this is going to be a whole season leading up to Daredevil getting in this room and freeing all these people. How boring. No, I wasn't thinking that at all. I mean, I didn't think that what happened would happen, though. We're gonna just like go all out and talk about that soon. Kirsten McDuffie does pay Matt a visit. Or no, Matt pays her a visit. And her role seems to be growing a little bit more in the show's main story because she's involved with the politics of all this now. She Knows what Red Hook is. She's getting information from Matt. And literally, she was pretty much the reason that everything went down this following night because she let up a little bit of information. Because she told Daredevil exactly what she was hearing when her. She was masked when they brought her to see the Swordsman. Daredevil literally was listening to water drops that she described. I heard water. I heard air. Like, we don't see her saying this, but Daredevil is recounting what she said to him. And I think that is so cool, because I wouldn't remember any of that. All I'd be like is, I. I am. I am blindfolded right now. Where are they taking me? This is not normal. Without further ado, let's get into Red Hook. So Daredevil does enter the way that Kirsten gave him, and he makes it actually all the way to the cages of the prisoners. Okay, Daredevil's here. What is he going to do? He just looks around. There's action. Kind of like incoming. He knows that he can't let these people stay here, so he literally starts on unhinging all these cages. And you know what he does? He gives the Swordsman two pieces of metal that look kind of like beating sticks. I don't know. He uses them as a great weapon. And he was honestly very grateful to get those. So we actually get to see Jack slash. Swordsman and Daredevil team up to free everybody and fight some brutal fights. I mean, one time, like when the smoke. When Matt put the smoke in their faces, I think Swordsman just jabs. He throws one of those things at the guy and he gets it. He gets stuck through his chest. Like, that's brutal. And some of the nunchuck work on. On Daredevil this week. Oh, my God. He was. He was throwing that thing everywhere. He was whipping that around corners. He was prime Daredevil. And this is what we've always wanted. This is what I've always wanted. I want more Daredevil in the suit. They got more Daredevil in his suit. The black suit, by the way. What a cool looking suit to see in action. I don't mind if he uses it the entire rest of the season until the last episode where he may need an upgrade because he gets beat up in this one too much and it's no more. No longer safe to use. I'm sure he'll return to the red next season. Or in Spider Man, Brand New Day, which I am very confident he will be appearing in, if not just A little bit or a big part. Personally, as I was hinting at earlier, I really hope that this story with Fisk is involved in Brand New Day. And the resolution becomes teaming up with Spider man, with the heroes that Daredevil has acquired. And for the final act of taking down Fisk, they bring in Spidey, somebody who they've only heard about and ran into maybe once or twice into the fold. I think that's important. I think it's very special. If they do that, it'll really give all the Netflix shows and the Born Again episodes something that builds up into something completely miraculous and validating by the entire MCU itself. Already seeing that trailer where he webs up Punisher and puts it. He webs his mouth. I mean, that's a goofy Spider man thing done to a very serious character. The contrast between those characters is. Is hilarious, which is why I. I think they're putting him in there. Not that Frank Castle shouldn't be an awesome addition to be excited about, but it. It could be a Trojan horse just for Daredevil and other of more of these street characters fighting along Spider man in whatever craziness he gets himself into. I got a great feeling about Brand New Day, and it comes right before Doomsday. So again, I keep bringing it there, but that fight scene in Red Hook was amazing. Fist doesn't seem too shook by exactly what happened because he has a secondary plan. Once everybody gets out, they give the swordsman a giant armored truck to get out of there. I mean, it looked like they weren't getting out of there. Honestly, the show did a great job. Show does a really good job of making you wonder is who's safe? Because they took out Foggy right away like that. Who is safe? And is anyone safe ever? That's something really powerful that a show almost like Game of Thrones did to us with their main character. If you haven't seen it, I won't spoil it. But I kind of just told. I kind of just did. But, you know, anything can happen except the death of Daredevil because we need the show. I don't want to see the girl, White Tiger's niece, take on the. The mantle of Daredevil. I want Daredevil to continue to be Daredevil. I don't want to see Bullseye as Daredevil for a whole season. I want to see Daredevil as Daredevil. And boy, oh, boy, did we get some of that payoff tonight. I completely am all for this show. I think it's a fantastic Blast of fun. And by blast, I mean let's be Wilson Fisk for a second and find out that all the prisoners got released. Let's just destroy all. All the evidence of the port coming into Red Hook. All of the North Star. We're going to blow it up. Even if there's tons of people on there. He mass kills. I'm rewatching Game of Thrones right now. There's something similar that happens on Game of Thrones. He. I mean, he's an unforgivable villain when you do stuff like that. Even if they're thieves, you're hired thieves. He blew up the North Star. The Northern Star. Sorry. And he killed everyone aboard and all the evidence with it. And with that win of freeing the people. There's a bigger story here. What the heck is going on? And why are all. Why did all these people die? It almost covers up the. Oh, we were in cages and we were saved. I'm thinking that those contrasting views are going to be argued about. I wonder what the people who were saved. I don't know if they're going to open up to news outlets or BB herself. This can't look good for Fisk. And his strategy to blow up the Northern Star was, I mean, an extreme countermeasure to losing all his prisoners. How can he just take all those prisoners and not think that a literal superhero out on the streets that wants to take him down isn't going to find that place and liberate the hell out of it? That's one thing he underestimates Daredevil. He constantly underestimates Matt Murdock and Daredevil. But he, he, he does estimate him, in a sense, by putting Matt Murdock, a lawyer, on a pedestal and putting Daredevil on the lowest of the vigilante list. It's. That's maybe one of the most genius things he could have done to try and get Matt out into the open more as either or because Matt Murdock is technically missing right now. So, yeah, in the rearview mirror. Mega mega explosion. Super bang bang. Oh my goodness. Type giant explosion. And that's where we leave Karen and Matt driving away from the scene. Prisoners are saved. Epic action. Plenty of questions going into next week that just delete. Leave us lingering on. How's that going to play out? Are we going to get to see fix Fisk box, kind of figure out the whole meaning to that? How's Matt going to play a part in that? I mean, Matt seems to be on his tail pretty well. They can't they seem to be chasing each other around in circles a little bit, but there's a lot of people getting in the middle of it. And again, for the third time, I will remind you, Karen, Paige, she's not safe. Nobody's safe. So let's just be grateful that Cherry, he's all right in the hospital. Then they moved. Like, his friends moved him and took him because they thought he was in danger, which I totally actually respect. I think that was a good move. How we need Cherry alive, right? Cherry is a good guy. He seems to be getting in the middle of it. Like I said, if you're friends with Matt Murdock or Daredevil, if you're part of helping him in any way, you're a target as well. And it seems that Kingpin can catch mad around most corners, but Daredevil knows how to work those corners. Jump up a layer, hide in the shadows, and come back out with knowledge and. And information to expose Fisk. He wasn't planning on finding those prisoners. And, I mean, with the little time he felt he had, and he might have felt he had, he could have thought, maybe I should come back with the team to help me clear this room. There's, like 50 people in here, it looks like. And in a moment's notice, what do you do? You got to make that call. What are we going to do here? Are we going to be a hero right now, or are we going to maybe potentially never get this chance again? He goes, obviously, with the hero route. So, two episodes, one night. Did you enjoy the double feature? It's gone. The subreddit of our Marvel Studios. Before we end this episode fully, we're going to see what the fans are talking about. Adorable. Air6901 on Reddit says the Swordsman is such a great character. Oh, my goodness. Let's talk about it. Yeah, he's great. He. He brings a whole other level. I want to see way more of him. He can have a show, and I'd watch it. I'll say that. I'll just say it. John T. Lurker says, how many worlds do you need to conquer? How many are there? Fist says, real psycho line right there. Yes. Jaunty. I am 100 feeling that right now. Fisk is overreaching, overextending, and he has every right to do it in his own mind. And by doing that, he's kicking some major ass. I mean, Fisk is a sick villain and one of the best films we've ever had in the mcu. So I Love to see him utilized to the maximum potential as we have been seeing him used. And he's a nut job. Well, one last comment. Powell is a fantastic character. He's so mundane and yet one of the most evil and benevolent characters on the show currently. Mad props to Hamish Allen Heedley for that. Be completely honest with you. I don't know who Paul is. Is that the main evil cop? That one guy willing to do anything for Fisk? I'm rooting for Daniel. I'm excited to see what happens with. With Daniel. Your mind aches, actually says, I do think BB Is, is soft on Daniel. She's going to enjoy taking. She's not going to enjoy taking him down, right? She's gonna take him down. That's the ultimate end goal. Right? Or they do the shock sequence where he does something horrible to her, breaks his morality and starts to realize, oh, my God, what have I got myself swept up into? This guy is a. Is a ticking time bomb like he is, seriously. And not a good position. I think he's gonna get hurt by Fisk, overwhelmed and want to run. Something's gonna happen with him because he's way too confident right now for anyone to be doing the things that he's doing. And. Yeah. So thank you for listening to Marvel Maniac and MCU After Show. This has been your host, Eric Cicada, aka Mr. Honest. And we will be back next week for episode four of Daredevil Board. Again. Once we. Once we see that episode, we're already halfway through the season. That's how fast this is moving for us. So let's cherish it. This is the beginning to a great year of Marvel television. Wonder man was great. They got approved for a second season, thank God. And all I'll say is I'm just so glad and proud to be here as your host. Thank you for being here. Listen, and if you're loving the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. And it gives us a chance to be heard by many more fans like you. In the notes section of this episode, go to our Discord and we can talk about it there. We are a growing community and it will be an honor to have you just talk about this during the week and speculate and try and figure out what's going to happen next week. All right. And until then, Avengers disassemble.